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Tag Archives: Mirror

First Telescope Making Class Since March of 2020!

15 Wednesday Sep 2021

Posted by gfbrandenburg in astronomy, Optics, Telescope Making

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Tags

aluminizing, Coulter, Mirror, parabolization, Silvering, spherical, Telescope

Tonight we were finally able to hold a telescope making workshop again, for the first time since March 13, 2020, according to our log-in sheet.

We had five people, and we looked at several mirrors.

The first one was a plate glass, 10″, f/5.5 Coulter mirror that Kevin Hartnett had obtained and wanted me to strip the old aluminum coating from and then silver it and overcoat it. I thought the coating looked rather good, especially given its age, and wanted to put it on the testing stand to see how the figure looked. All of us thought the geometric figure of the mirror looked pretty good, and the ronchi lines looked nice and smooth. Alin Tolea said he saw a narrow turned down edge region perhaps 1/4″. Kevin thought it performed well, and I can see why.

I hope my silvering job turns out at least as good as its current aluminization.

Here are a few frames from my video of the Ronchi images (100 lines per inch):

The second one was a 17.5″ f/4.5 pyrex mirror, also originally made by Coulter and then refigured by somebody called Optical Western Labs (?) in California. The owner, We did not like this mirror at all. We thought the Ronchi lines were not smooth; there is a raised area in the center; and it even shows some signs of astigmatism. Here are a couple of frames the video I took of its Ronchi measurements:

The third mirror was an 8″, under-f/4 plate glass mirror that the owner reported performed very poorly. Once we put it on the stand, we saw why: it had never been parabolized! The Ronchi lines were almost perfectly straight! You only want straight Ronchi lines if your goal is to have a spherical (as opposed to parabolic, ellipsoidal, or hyperbolic) mirror. That’s why all its images were blurry. Nagesh Kanvindeh immediately decided to start trying to parabolize it, and we happened to have a synthetic pitch lap of 8″ diameter that had been last used to finish an f/4 mirror, so he got started right away.

By the way, our new hours are 5:00 pm to 8:30 pm, Tuesdays and Fridays.

A neat geometry lesson! And a rant…

13 Thursday Feb 2020

Posted by gfbrandenburg in education, flat, History, Math, Optics, teaching, Telescope Making, Uncategorized

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apps, computer, computer-managed instruction, geometry, kaleidoscope, Math, Mirror, programs, reflection, school

Here is some information that teachers at quite a few different levels could use* for a really interesting geometry lesson involving reflections involving two or more mirrors, placed at various angles!

Certain specific angles have very special effects, including 90, 72, 60, 45 degrees … But WHY?

This could be done with actual mirrors and a protractor, or with geometry software like Geometer’s Sketchpad or Desmos. Students could also end up making their own kaleidoscopes – either with little bits of colored plastic at the end or else with some sort of a wide-angle lens. (You can find many easy directions online for doing just that; some kits are a lot more optically perfect than others, but I don’t think I’ve even seen a kaleidoscope that had its mirrors set at any angle other than 60 degrees!)

I am reproducing a couple of the images and text that Angel Gilding provides on their website (which they set up to sell silvering kits (about which I’ve posted before, and which I am going to attempt using pretty soon)).

At 72º you see 4 complete reflections.

When two mirrors are parallel to each other, the number of reflections is infinite. Placing one mirror at a slight angle causes the reflections to curve.

 

https://angelgilding.com/multiple-reflections/

===========

Rant, in the form of a long footnote:

* assuming that the teacher are still allowed to initiate and carry out interesting projects for their students to use, and aren’t forced to follow a scripted curriculum. It would be a lot better use of computers than forcing kids to painfully walk through (and cheat, and goof off a lot) when an entire class is forced to use one of those very expensive but basically worthless highly-centralized, district-purchased computer-managed-instruction apps. God, what a waste of time – from personal experience attempting to be a volunteer community math tutor at such a school, and also from my experience as a paid or volunteer tutor in helping many many students who have had to use such programs as homework. Also when I was required to use them in my own classes, over a decade ago, I and most of my colleagues found them a waste of time. (Not all – I got officially reprimanded for telling my department chair that ‘Renaissance Math’ was either a ‘pile of crap’ or a ‘pile of shit’ to my then-department head, in the hearing of one of the APs, on a teacher-only day.

Keep in mind: I’m no Luddite! I realized early on that in math, science, and art, computers would be very, very useful. I learned how to write programs in BASIC on one of the very first time-share networks, 45 years ago. For the first ten years that my school system there was almost no decent useful software for math teachers to use with their classes unless you had AppleII computers. We had Commodore-64’s which were totally incompatible and there were very few companies (Sunburst was one) putting out any decent software for the latter. So when I saw some great ideas that would be ideal for kids to use on computers to make thinking about numbers, graphs, and equations actually fun and mentally engaging, often I would have to write them my self during whatever free time I could catch, at nights and weekends. Of course, doing this while being a daddy to 2 kids, and still trying to teach JHS math to a full load of students (100 to 150 different kids a day at Francis Junior High School) and running a school math club and later coaching soccer. (I won’t say I was a perfect person or a perfect teacher. I believe I learned to give better math explanations than most, didn’t believe that you either have a ‘m,ath gene’ or you don’t, at times had some interesting projects, and at times was very patient and clear, but had a terrible temper and often not good at defusing things. Ask my kids or my former students!) Later on, I collaborated with some French math teachers and a computer programmer to try to make an app/program called Geometrix for American geometry classes that was supposed to help kids figure out how to make all sorts of geometric constructions and then develop a proof of some property of that situation. It was a failure. I was the one writing the American version, including constructions and tasks from the text I was currently using. There was no way I could anticipate what sorts of obstacles students would find when using this program, until I had actual guinea pig students to use them with. Turns out the final crunch of writing however many hundreds of exercises took place over the summer, and no students to try them on. Figuring out hints and clues would require watching a whole bunch of kids and seeing what they were getting right or wrong. In other words, a lot of people’s full time job for a long time, maybe paying the kids as well to try it out so as to get good feedback, and so on. Maybe it could work, but it would require a lot more investment of resources that the tiny French and American companies involved could afford. We would have really needed a team of people, not just me and a single checker.

I find that none of these computer-dominated online learning programs (much less the one I worked on) can take the place of a good teacher. Being in class, listening to and communicating logically or emotionally with a number of other students and a knowledgeable adult or two, is in itself an extremely important skill  to learn. It’s also the best way to absorb new material in a way that will make sense and be added to one’s store of knowledge. That sort of group interaction is simply IMPOSSIBLE in a class where everybody is completely atomized and is on their own electronic device, engaged or not.

Without a human being trying to make sense out of the material, what I found quite consistently, in all the computerized settings, that most students absorbed nothing at all or else the wrong lessons altogether (such as, ‘if you randomly try all the multiple choice answers, you’ll eventually pick the right one and you can move on to some other stupid screen’; it doesn’t matter that all your prior choices were wrong; sometimes you get lucky and pick the right one first or second! Whee! It’s like a slot machine at a casino!).

By contrast, I found that with programs/apps/languages like Logo, Darts, Green Globs, or Geometer’s Sketchpad, with teacher guidance, students actually got engaged in the process, had fun, and learned something.

I find the canned computer “explanations” are almost always ignored by the students, and are sometimes flat-out wrong. Other times, although they may be mathematically correct, they assume either way too much or way too little, or else are just plain confusing. I have yet to detect much of any learning going on because of those programs.

Telescope Making in Cuba?

04 Friday Dec 2015

Posted by gfbrandenburg in Telescope Making

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Tags

ATM, cuba, dobsonian, Grit, Mirror, Optics, Polishing, Telescope

Inspired by a Canadian amateur astronomer who visited the place, I’ve been in recent contact by email with some potential amateur telescope makers in Cuba. 
 .
I proposed bringing the optics for some completed 4″ to 8″ Newtonian telescopes in my luggage (ie parabolized & aluminized mirrors, diagonals, and eyepieces) and then giving them ideas and assistance on making the rest of the scopes. I have a number of already-completed primaries and diagonals at our DC telescope making workshop, but would have to scrounge around for eyepieces. 
 .
(If mechanics in Cuba can keep 1958-model cars running for over 50 years, I bet that they can probably improvise other stuff a la John Dobson, if they have any raw materials at all, which I am not sure about). I am also not sure whether I should bring focusers and spiders, or whether they should make them there themselves…
 .
I understand from the Cubans that there are almost no telescopes in the entire country except for one no-longer-operational telescope at the University of Havana’s observatory, and certainly no Dobsonians. They sound quite interested in the idea, and also were suggesting that I might stay long enough to demonstrate how to grind and polish and figure a mirror.  If I follow up on that idea, it would probably require me bringing in abrasives and pitch in addition to the finished mirrors, which might cause further luggage problems. Explaining finished mirrors carefully wrapped up is one thing, but containers of, say, 15-micron WAO microgrit? They might cut open the bag and test to see if it’s really cocaine…. thus contaminating it…
 .
Both the Canadian and the Cubans said that bringing in materials officially labeled as ‘gifts’ would entail lots of red tape and delays.
.
For me, the payback would be the chance to practice my crappy Spanish in an exotic place that I’ve never visited, and to observe from Tropical skies that suffer relatively low light pollution, as well as doing some good in a country that seems to have a low violent crime rate…. I was planning on flying to Mexico or the Bahamas and then getting a flight to Havana, which seems cheaper than an official direct flight. I suspect that since this would be a scientific exchange, I might even be able to get both governments to sign off and issue an official visa or whatever.
 .
Any thoughts? Anybody ever been there?

Fine and Intermediate Grinding of Your Mirror

15 Monday Dec 2014

Posted by gfbrandenburg in Telescope Making

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Tags

Grinding, Grit, Mirror

3. Grinding (intermediate and fine): Once you have reached your goal for the sagitta, and inspected it, then it’s time to move on to the next smaller grit size and to a more conventional grinding technique. First of all, throw away all of the used newspaper, rinse out the water bucket, wipe off and put away the grit container, and clean off the workbench. Wash or rinse your hands, and make sure that your clothing does not contain the previous grit size. Then get new clean newsprint, clean water, and the next smaller grit size. Again, dampen the newsprint to keep the mirror and tool from sliding around.

 A. You will NOT be using the circular stroke once you are past the hogging-out stage. You will instead be doing a center-over-center stroke, where the mirror or tool that is on top is pushed back and forth in a straight line away and towards your body, such that the top piece of glass will project forwards, and then backwards, by about 1/6 of the diameter of your mirror. You will do this for maybe 8 to 10 times, then rotate both to avoid astigmatism. With 6”, 8”, and 10” mirrors, a decent rule of thumb is to budget an hour of grinding per grit size, or more. Otherwise, the grinding sequence is the same, including the regular rotation process.

 B. Here is one possible sequence of grits for an 8” or 10” mirror, but there are other possibilities. We have lots of different sizes of grits, made by various manufacturers over the past 50 years, and so we use a lot of steps. Other people don’t have as many sizes, and they will use fewer steps, but take longer at each grit size. The 60-400 grit sizes are generally made of silicon carbide (trade name Carborundum, formula SiC, which is also made into jewelry under the chemical name Moissanite or names like “Diamond Aura). Past that, most grits are aluminum oxide. Notice the different methods of measuring the grit – up through 400 grit, the number theoretically means the number of grains that it would take to make one linear inch. The micron sizes are in millionths of a meter, or thousandths of a millimeter. I have collected a number of tables that supposedly show how these sizes are related. Unfortunately, the tables do not agree with each other. We generally prepare slurries with the micron-measured grits; this means that you need to shake up the slurry before applying it to the work, but it also means you have fewer chances to contaminate your work.

 60 grit  (hogging out)

80 grit

120 grit

220 grit

320 grit

400 grit

30 micron

25 micron

17 micron

9 micron

5 micron

3 micron

 C. When you get into the micron sizes, you need to be on guard against the mirror sticking to the tool. If you feel them beginning to ‘catch’ and stick, then immediately separate them and add more slurry. If they do stick together, it’s merely a pain in the tush, not a disaster – we just use bar clamps and pieces of wood to carefully press the tool and mirror past the other. If this happens at home and you don’t have a long bar clamp, you can instead put them both into a clean bucket of warm water with a drop or two of detergent and wait for a while, then push; alternate with a bucket of cool water with some detergent and wait for a while, then push; repeat as necessary until they come apart. Don’t use boiling or near-freezing water because the thermal shock could possibly crack either the tool or the mirror.

 D. Be careful about contamination. It will only take a single grain of 120 grit to make a nasty bunch of scratches in a mirror that you are fine-grinding at 5 microns! Be paranoid! Dust particles can linger anywhere! Wash your hands frequently, don’t re-use paper towels that have dropped on the floor, clean off your work surface after you are done, and use plenty of clean newsprint to cover the workbenches. (However, a few scratches will NOT measurably damage the optical qualities of your telescope. It’s much more important that the overall figure be good.) Also watch out for grit or sawdust or metal chips sticking to your clothes and hair. To help prevent contamination, we have installed a large screened tent canopy. Only work under there for polishing and figuring.

 E. When to move to the next grit? Use your naked eye, and/or an inexpensive illuminated microscope to check for uniformity of wear all over the mirror before proceeding to the next step. With some of those microscopes is possible to use a cell phone to take photos of the texture of the glass. Make sure the texture is the same near the edge of your mirror as it is in the center. If it’s not, keep grinding for a while.

 F. You won’t be able to change the focal length very much once you are past 120 grit, so use your spherometer and a combination of work with tool on top (TOT) and mirror on top (MOT) to get the focal length where you want it to be before you move onto 220 grit. Remember: MOT will make the sagitta deeper, which means a shorter focal length, and TOT does the exact opposite.

(Link forward to the next section ==>)

(<== Link to go back to the previous section)

 

 

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